Taking trauma into account

Interviews are essential to gathering detailed information during a fraud examination. But some interviews require special care, especially when it comes to victims of fraud. Trauma-informed interviewing practices take into account the emotional upheaval that fraud victims often face. In this article, the author explains why trauma-informed interviews are important and how their principles can be incorporated into interviewing practices.

When people think of crime-related trauma, they often think of experiencing or witnessing violent crimes. But financial crimes can take a significant mental and emotional toll on victims, as well. Financial fraud isn’t a victimless crime, and those who fall victim to it aren’t to blame. In fact, victim interviews and empirical research show that financial crime victims do experience trauma, and at times significantly.

One study that analyzed 130 impact statements from victims of Bernard Madoff’s Ponzi scheme identified the consequences of victimization, including financial, mental or emotional, interpersonal, physical, and life-trajectory disturbances. The study also recognized a diminished sense of trust in the government among victims. In addition, victims often reported feeling anxiety, guilt, shame, embarrassment, anger, fear and uncertainty. The damage to their well-being often manifested in a notable decline to their physical and mental health. (See “Hearing from the Forgotten Victims: A Content Analysis of the Consequences of Bernard L. Madoff’s Ponzi Scheme,” by Emily M. Homer, Caroline I. Jalain and Kaitlyn B. Hoover, Taylor & Francis Online, May 18, 2023.)

Certified Fraud Examiners (CFEs) have always understood the importance of interviewing all parties connected to the fraud — from suspects and potential co-conspirators to witnesses and the victims themselves. But as our understanding of the effects of financial crimes and their associated trauma on victims has evolved, knowing the proper techniques for interviewing victims is imperative to collecting the information necessary for a successful examination.

A practice that’s been gaining traction in financial fraud examinations in recent years is the concept of trauma-informed interviewing, which considers the anguished experiences of fraud victims. According to the Substance Abuse and Mental Health Services Administration (SAMHSA), “a program, organization, or system that is trauma-informed realizes the widespread impact of trauma and understands potential paths for recovery; recognizes the signs and symptoms of trauma in clients, families, staff, and others involved with the system; and responds by fully integrating knowledge about trauma into policies, procedures, and practices, and seeks to actively resist re-traumatization.” (See “SAMHSA’s Concept of Trauma and Guidance for a Trauma-Informed Approach,” SAMHSA’s Trauma and Justice Strategic Initiative, July 2014.)

This article will help fraud examiners understand how interviewing has evolved over time, what it means to conduct trauma-informed interviews and why it’s important, and how trauma-informed principles can be incorporated into interviewing practices.

The changing focus of interviewing practices and goals

Those familiar with interviewing practices are likely familiar with the classic Reid Technique of interviewing and interrogation, which originated with John E. Reid and Associates, Inc. in 1947. The company began writing books and teaching materials for the techniques in 1984. According to the company’s website (reid.com), the Reid Technique is “a structured interview and interrogation process that involves three primary stages: Fact Analysis, the Investigative Interview and, when appropriate, the Interrogation.” (See “A Description of The Reid Technique,” Reid.com, Nov. 1, 2018.)

When investigators reach the interrogation phase, the Reid Technique instructs them to follow core principles, including refraining from:

• Threatening the subject with any physical harm or inevitable consequences.
• Conducting interrogations for an excessively lengthy period of time.
• Denying subjects any of their rights.
• Denying subjects the opportunity to satisfy their physical needs.

The core principles also encourage investigators to “exercise special cautions when questioning juveniles or individuals with mental or psychological impairments.” (See “A Description of The Reid Technique,” Reid.com, Nov. 1, 2018.)

Although these principles seem appropriate, many have objected to the processes and results that have come from interviews conducted using the Reid Technique. The Reid website has a “Critics Corner” that describes common criticisms of the technique and the company’s rebuttals. Chief among the objections to the technique is the perceived focus on conducting interrogations and gaining confessions. The company disputes claims that the technique’s focus and guidance on interrogations has led to many false confessions. According to the company, the technique itself is not responsible. “False confessions are not caused by the application of the Reid Technique; they are usually caused by interrogators engaging in improper interrogation procedures … .” (See “A Description of The Reid Technique,” Reid.com, Nov. 1, 2018.)

Improper interrogation procedures can also lead to inadequate investigations or examinations, dropped charges, dismissed cases, not-guilty verdicts, loss of public trust in law enforcement and institutions, civil lawsuits, and other undesirable outcomes. (See “Potential Civil Liability for Coercive Interrogations,” by James P. Manak, Americans for Effective Law Enforcement Alert Training Bulletin, January 2012 and “When subjects admit guilt but they’re innocent,” by Beth Mohr, CFE, Fraud Magazine, March/April 2023.)

Considering these factors, many anti-fraud professionals have moved away from the Reid Technique to other interview tactics that aren’t as focused on interrogations and confessions. A growing alternative is the P.E.A.C.E. model, which originated as an interviewing framework for police in England and Wales in the 1990s. Scotland and Northern Ireland subsequently adopted it, and the P.E.A.C.E. model later expanded across the globe. Mary Schollum, a policing and criminal justice consultant, told Police Chief Magazine in 2017 that, “The aim of PEACE is to enable interviewers to obtain accurate, relevant, and complete accounts from those being interviewed — and to ensure those accounts are admissible as evidence.” (See “Bringing PEACE to the United States: A Framework for Investigative Interviewing,” by Mary Schollum, Police Chief Magazine, November 2017.) The P.E.A.C.E. model has five steps that form its acronym:

1. Planning and preparation.
2. Engage and explain.
3. Account (clarification and challenge).
4. Closure.
5. Evaluation.

The P.E.A.C.E. model incorporates multiple interview techniques, including free recall, enhanced cognitive interviewing and conversation management, which has different uses depending on the interviewee. Free recall encourages the interviewee to present information in whatever order they see fit, ignoring chronology, to obtain a stream-of-conscious view of the situation. Cognitive interviewing focuses on memory retrieval, and conversation management involves creating a structured, systematic interviewing format. (See “The Conversation Management Approach to Investigative Interviewing,” by Eric Shepherd and Andy Griffiths, Oxford Academic, August 2021 and “P.E.A.C.E. A Different Approach to Investigative Interviewing,” The Science of Interviewing, Forensic Interview Solutions.) Rooted in evidence-based psychological principles, the model aims to help interviewers gain valuable information from witnesses and victims in addition to suspects. Since its inception, many police agencies in Europe and worldwide have incorporated the P.E.A.C.E. model into their practices.

Emergence of trauma-informed practices and interviewing

It’s difficult to determine when the concept of trauma-informed practices first emerged. According to SAMHSA, trauma has been measured and studied since the 1970s, following the identification of post-traumatic stress disorder (PTSD) related to the Vietnam War. Mental health professionals and later the public began to understand that trauma can affect people’s ability to function in society. (See “SAMHSA’s Concept of Trauma and Guidance for a Trauma-Informed Approach,” SAMHSA’s Trauma and Justice Strategic Initiative, July 2014.)

Kerry Marlow, former detective inspector and force interview adviser for the South Wales Police, tells Fraud Magazine that a fraudster’s communication skills make it challenging for victims to recognize and resist manipulation, often leading to severe long-term psychological effects, including PTSD. He adds that fraudsters employ psychological manipulation techniques to gain and maintain compliance from their victims while avoiding suspicion. They establish relationships, groom victims and set expectations to ensure adherence to their instructions. By exploiting social norms and creating a deceptive but convincing reality, Marlow explains, fraudsters obscure the harmful nature of the situation. “The grooming renders any motivation to escape as nonsensical,” he says.

For many decades, mental health and social service professionals have worked to understand the many biological, psychological and social effects that trauma can have on people. Part of this understanding includes recognizing common trauma responses while acknowledging that everyone experiences and reacts to trauma differently. Many organizations educate therapists and the public on trauma and its effects. For example, the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention’s Office of Readiness and Response and SAMHSA’s National Center for Trauma-Informed Care have collaborated to develop a training program to enhance awareness of trauma-informed approaches during public health emergencies. The program describes the six guiding principles of a trauma-informed approach:

1. Safety (ensuring all involved feel physically and psychologically safe).
2. Trustworthiness and transparency (ensuring that operations and decisions are conducted with transparency).
3. Peer support (ensuring interactions with others in similar situations).
4. Collaboration and mutuality (partnering with individuals and recognizing that all play a role in trauma-informed care).
5. Empowerment, voice and choice (recognizing and building upon strengths and experiences).
6. Cultural, historical and gender issues (responsiveness to individuals’ varying needs).

To ensure that people receive the best treatment and care in any situation, these principles emphasize creating an environment that’s sensitive to their personal circumstances. (See “SAMHSA’s Concept of Trauma and Guidance for a Trauma-Informed Approach,” SAMHSA’s Trauma and Justice Strategic Initiative, July 2014.)

Recently, trauma-informed principles have made their way into interviewing practices as part of fraud examinations, particularly when interviewing crime victims. Trauma-informed practices encourage individuals’ autonomy and control in a collaborative, supportive environment. Using trauma-informed interviewing techniques can help combat the common complaint among victims (of any type of crime) that they don’t feel supported or heard.

Bruce Pitt-Payne, LSM, CPII, LPI, who had a 26-year career with the Royal Canadian Mounted Police (RCMP) as a major crime investigator, interview specialist and police sergeant (retired), tells Fraud Magazine that the use of trauma-informed approaches in fraud cases recognizes that much of the trauma has less to do with what was taken and more to do with the effect on the person from whom it was taken. “Fraud victims may feel shame for ‘letting themselves be taken,’ and the secondary emotion of anger may take hold,” explains Pitt-Payne. “A trauma-informed approach allows us to see them as a person who has been affected by the crime and to return to them some level of control that was taken during the fraud.”

Using trauma-informed interviewing techniques has many additional benefits, including:

• Enhancing the ability to gather more accurate evidence.
• Promoting better relationships and cooperation.
• Humanizing victims.
• Limiting repeat traumatization.
• Encouraging honesty among interviewees.
• Minimizing suggestibility.

(See “SAMHSA’s Concept of Trauma and Guidance for a Trauma-Informed Approach,” SAMHSA’s Trauma and Justice Strategic Initiative, July 2014 and “Key Ingredients for Successful Trauma-Informed Care Implementation,” by Christopher Menschner and Alexandra Maul, Center for Health Care Strategies, April 2016.)

How financial crime can create trauma

Fraud examiners who work with or interview financial crime victims should be aware of their unique trauma responses. According to Pitt-Payne, fraud victims’ trauma responses may be akin to sexual abuse victims who blame themselves for what happened and fear that others will too. “Fraud victims may enter survival mode while the shame factor may initiate a flight response as opposed to the fight [response], which would be reporting it to the police,” he tells Fraud Magazine.

To a different (and often lesser) extent, indirect victims such as family members, witnesses to the crime or those knowledgeable of the situation may also experience trauma. Suspects and known perpetrators should be treated differently in an interview than those who are potentially experiencing the effects of trauma.

To conduct a thorough, trauma-informed examination, fraud examiners should realize that fraud victims often feel an increased amount of self-blame and self-loathing. Victims report feeling isolated or experiencing social stigma. Feelings of shame may prohibit people from sharing accounts of their victimization with others, even people they consider supportive. In one study, crime victims reported not telling their families about victimization for an extended period of time and receiving adversarial feedback from their families when disclosing the victimization. (See “Addressing the Challenge of Chronic Fraud Victimization,” FINRA Investor Education Foundation and AARP Fraud Watch Network, March 2021.) An interview with a fraud examiner might be the victim’s first chance to truly share or analyze their thoughts and experiences. In this regard, examiners may be called upon to provide listening support and understanding for victims.

Even though it might seem to be in their best interest, victims may not be willing to work with fraud examiners for a variety of reasons. Individual and organizational victims may elect not to report or prosecute financial crimes because the perceived costs of reporting outweigh the potential benefits. Feelings of shame or embarrassment might discourage victims from cooperating with an examination or investigation or pursuing action against a perpetrator. According to the Association of Certified Fraud Examiners’ (ACFE) Occupational Fraud 2024: A Report to the Nations, 34% of occupational fraud cases weren’t referred to law enforcement due to the victim organization’s fear of bad publicity. Similarly, crimes against public companies may not be reported due to fear of negative impact on shareholders or the stock market. Fraud examiners shouldn’t consider victims’ or witnesses’ lack of cooperation as a sign of guilt or deceit. (See “Why companies are afraid to fight fraud,” by Tasha Bailey, CFE, Fraud Magazine, May 2015, 2024 and “Research: Why Corporate Fraud Reports are Down,” by Cynthia Courtois and Yves Gendron, Harvard Business Review, July 1, 2020.)

How to conduct trauma-informed interviews

Interviewing is a learned skill that requires practice. According to Pitt-Payne, a victim-centric approach “builds the bridges to information,” making a willingness to learn as much as possible about human memory a necessity when studying trauma-informed interviewing. “Without this specific knowledge, you will be looking for a template approach to interviewing instead of being able to work with a framework of scientific principle to be applied depending upon how the victim presents to you,” he explains to Fraud Magazine. “In the same way that two people or two situations would never be the same, a trauma-informed interview should not be a linear approach.” Comparing trauma-informed interviewing techniques to those used when interviewing a child, Pitt-Payne emphasizes the importance of conducting the interview based solely on the needs of the interviewee.

“This means that one of the most important factors of success is being able to intently listen to what the victim is saying and to treat them as not just an individual, but as one who has come to you with faith and trust that you will understand them without judgment,” Pitt-Payne says, adding that victims rely on interviewers “to treat them with sensitivity and empathy,” caring for them throughout the process.

Stated simply, “a trauma-informed approach involves understanding that trauma can always be present and requires a change in mindset from ‘what’s wrong with you?’ to ‘what happened to you?’” (See “Safe Accessible Forensic Interviewing for Elders,” Modell Consulting Group, LLC.) Follow these guidelines to reflect trauma-informed principles in interviews:

• Use many open-ended questions or statements.
• Try not to interrupt; tolerate pauses.
• Recognize signs of overwhelm (silence, changing the subject, agitation) and respond with sensitivity, patience and empathy.
• Give victims autonomy by asking for their opinions on how to proceed.
• Focus  on thoughts and feelings rather than actions.
• Rather than request information chronologically, invite the individual to begin wherever they’re comfortable.
• Understand that multiple interviews may be necessary.
• Set goals for interviews with the interviewee.
• Encourage subjects to reach out after the interview.
• Help the subject plan for what they can do to relax and decompress after the interview.
• Connect victims to resources that’ll help them understand their financial position. Many people need advice on investing or divesting assets, countering damage to credit or understanding restitution payments.
• Consider recommending support groups, such as those offered by the AARP, Wayne State University’s Institute of Gerontology and the Cybercrime Support Network. 
  (See “Trauma Informed Interviewing Techniques,” Lawyers’ Committee for Civil Rights Fenwick & West; “Working with Victims of Crime,” National Institute of Corrections; “Blame and Shame in the Context of Financial Fraud,” AARP Fraud Watch Network and FINRA Investor Education Foundation, June 2022.)

When preparing victims to be interviewed, Marlow advises that the interviewer, “outline the general structure of the interview and provide some explanation of the ground rules that apply to it, including the witness not making any assumptions about the interviewer’s knowledge of the event.”

Additionally, when working with victims, the interviewer’s tone and word choice can inadvertently have a negative effect. Alternative wording can shift the blaming mentality and make victims more comfortable. (See “Blame and Shame in the Context of Financial Fraud,” AARP Fraud Watch Network and FINRA Investor Education Foundation, June 2022.) As suggested by the International Association of Chiefs of Police, it’s best to “consider reframing questions that start with ‘why’; directives such as ‘explain to me…’; and requests for a chronological account with prompts such as ‘and then what happened?’” (See “Successful Trauma Informed Victim Interviewing,” International Association of Chiefs of Police.)

For difficult questions that might appear to blame the victim or bring up difficult emotions, fraud examiners should consider giving context as to why they’re seeking the answer. Additionally, a simple but potentially powerful turn of phrase can be used in an interview setting to help subjects feel more comfortable and empowered. Rather than using commanding language that could lead a victim to shut down, examiners should consider using, “I need you to help me.” For example, examiners could say, “I need you to help me understand what was going on in the office that day. Can you describe what you saw when you entered the room?” Stating “I’m sorry to ask you to repeat yourself, but I need you to tell me again what you heard on Tuesday morning so I can make sure I have the details correct,” is likely to result in a more positive response than, “Say that again,” or “What happened on Tuesday morning?” (See “Blame and Shame in the Context of Financial Fraud,” AARP Fraud Watch Network and FINRA Investor Education Foundation, June 2022.)

Additionally, changing language to focus more on the perpetrator and the perpetrator’s actions rather than the victim may limit perceived victim blaming. For example, asking “What did he do in that situation?” rather than “Why did you do that?” Fraud examiners should also avoid terms that could incite negative emotion, such as “duped,” “conned” and “scammed.” (See “Blame and Shame in the Context of Financial Fraud,” AARP Fraud Watch Network and FINRA Investor Education Foundation, June 2022.)

Many of the interviewing techniques that the ACFE recommends reflect the principles of trauma-informed care, including:

• Create a comfortable environment.
• Don’t block access to or lock the door in the interviewing room.
• Make sure the interviewee knows the interview isn’t mandatory.
• Assure as much confidentiality as possible (except in specific circumstances).
• Build rapport with the subject.
• Avoid complicated questions, leading questions, vague language and professional jargon.

(See Fraud Examiners Manual, ACFE.)

Some interview guidance may be more applicable when working with perpetrators and should be altered to incorporate trauma-informed perspectives when dealing with victims. For example:

• Be direct and explain who you are, your responsibility and what you hope to gain from the interview. Being transparent with a trauma victim helps encourage a trusting relationship.
• Notify a victim or someone who should be approached with trauma-informed care of the interview specifics and details ahead of time. Don’t notify those who might be directly involved in the fraud about a pending interview. You don’t want suspects to have an opportunity to craft their responses, destroy evidence, coerce witnesses or disappear.
• Consider the time of day and location when interviewing victims. The interview may need to be set in the individual’s home, which is discouraged when interviewing suspects.
• Have a neutral third party, such as a victim’s advocate, supportive family member or other person attend the interview to help put the interviewee at ease.

The goal of any fraud examination interview is to obtain the most detailed, accurate information about a case. How this goal is achieved varies depending on the person being interviewed. For those who’ve potentially been affected by the trauma of a financial crime, fraud examiners should use extra care to develop an environment in which the individual can feel supported and encouraged. Understanding how trauma may manifest itself for fraud victims can help develop information that’s beneficial to a fraud examination without further traumatizing the victim.

When applying trauma-informed approaches to interviews with fraud victims, Pitt-Payne stresses the importance of treating the interviewee “as a person who has had more than just an object or money taken from them.” Often feeling ashamed of being duped or even responsible for the crime, victims need to receive empathy from interviewers in a judgment-free environment. The bottom line, he tells Fraud Magazine, is that “fraud victims must be treated with respect.”

Emily Homer, Ph.D., CFE, is a research specialist for the ACFE. Contact her at EHomer@ACFE.com.

Trauma-informed interviewing requires additional skills and practice and may not be suitable for all interviewers. Those inexperienced with the technique may want to seek training or advice from others who are more accustomed to working with victims of financial crimes. For additional training on working with fraud victims, you may also consult the Responding to Transnational Elder Fraud course from the National White Collar Crime Center and the U.S. Department of Justice’s SAFE Training.

Recommended trauma-informed interviewing resources

• “Trauma Informed Interviewing Techniques,” Lawyers’ Committee for Civil Rights, Fenwick & West.
• “Interviewing with sensitivity: 10 trauma-informed interview techniques,” Q Workplace Solutions Pty. Ltd.
• “Working with Victims of Crime,” National Institute of Corrections.
• “Recovering from Investment Fraud: Start with These 6 Steps,” FINRA.
• “Victim Recovery Checklist,” National Center for Victims of Crime.