
Three ‘gotcha’ job interview questions
Read Time: 7 mins
Written By:
Donn LeVie, Jr., CFE
Ten years into my paralegal career, 5,000 miles away from my hometown, and with a spouse on deployment somewhere in the middle of the Pacific, I decided things were too quiet. It was time to shake things up.
I’d been working in the legal department of a small bank in Hawaii in a fantastic job. But it didn’t seem to be pushing the right buttons for me anymore. One day, I was presented with a bankruptcy petition that didn’t look quite right. I saw that it had all the markers of bankruptcy fraud. I alerted the attorney to whom I reported and wrote an internal report for the fraud department to review. I outlined my suspicions, attached the petition and the appropriate account numbers to the report and moved along with my bankruptcy file. I had no idea where this would eventually lead me and how different things were going to be a few months later.
The following morning, a fraud investigator at the bank found me at my desk to ask me some questions about the bankruptcy. After a great conversation, she asked me if I had done this before. Done what? I had never written a fraud report, but I had plenty of experience with briefs and case notes. Did I really do a good job on it?
Either by coincidence or some guiding hand, the universe placed a blog post into my feed reader that evening about questions to ask yourself if you’re looking for your dream job. I gave the article the side-eye (how did it know I was unfulfilled at work?) and almost went right past it. The questions, as it turns out, are fairly simple: What did you enjoy writing papers about in school? What do you find yourself talking about frequently, reading books about, and what gets you fired up? The answers to a lot of those questions, for me, were (and still are) financial crimes, victim advocacy and consumer fraud prevention. The stars were starting to line up, and I had a lot of thinking to do.
In the following weeks, I had a series of conversations with that fraud investigator about how she got where she is. I couldn’t get enough. We discussed what type of person does well in the role. And I wanted to hear all her stories.
I kept rolling it around in my brain. How fascinating it all sounded! This fraud investigator had a much cooler job than almost anyone else I knew. She agreed with me that it was very cool and continued to say how much she enjoyed her work.
I was familiar with the concept of “ikigai,” the Japanese notion of being truly fulfilled and how one’s work relates to their purpose. This investigator seemed to be camping out in that sweet spot covering all the key points: what the world needs, what you love doing, what you’re good at and what you can be paid for.
I took the investigator’s suggestion of considering the ACFE as a resource to learn more. The more I investigated the CFE credential and credentialing process, the better it sounded. I had a couple of advanced certifications from the National Association of Legal Assistants; one more should be a piece of cake. Spoiler alert: It’s not a piece of cake.
Discussions with my husband and my family highlighted how fortunate I am to be surrounded by people who believe in me. At this point, I should mention, my husband was in a submarine in the middle of the Pacific Ocean with near-zero contact as I was going through this existential crisis — but no biggie.
What I did get from him boiled down to “Sounds awesome, you’d be great — go for it!” That was all I needed to hear to know that he was behind me 100%. I leaned on my parents — who were five time zones away — to talk about study guides, work stress and whether I’d even be any good at it. I leaned on my friends who understood I needed dedicated time to study and offered encouragement at every turn.
I purchased a couple of used textbooks by Dr. Joseph T. Wells, CFE, CPA, founder and Chairman of the ACFE, signed up for the CFE Exam Prep Course and got to work.
Dedicating 15 hours per week, spread out in evenings and lunch breaks, I was able to get through the course and practice tests in about three months. I surprised myself when I saw my high scores and felt so good about my decision. I knew that I was on the right track when I woke up from dreaming about the case studies I read and wanted to go back to sleep to find out how the stories ended.
I wish I could say I changed my career path immediately. I remained in the job I had for another few months, while working at home on victim advocacy and consumer fraud prevention articles and presentations. (My goal was, and still is, to hold workshops in my community on red flags of fraud, how to spot scams and what to do if you’re a victim of fraud. I have since hosted these events, and they are every bit as fulfilling as I’d hoped for.)
An opportunity presented itself when I approached the military base’s Military & Family Support Center (also called Fleet & Family Services) to offer my time as a volunteer to talk about personal finance and fraud prevention with service members and their families.
While they didn’t have any volunteer opportunities at that time, they did have a position open to facilitate similar workshops and classes. The coordinator I spoke with encouraged me to apply as a way to work toward being a personal finance educator. I thought that was a wonderful idea, but I didn’t know how to teach stress management and work-life balance. I was struggling with these myself. Well, I got over that once she said service members would appreciate my perspective and probably learn a lot from me. I applied and started working more toward my goal on this strange and meandering path toward ikigai.
At the support center, I was presented with opportunities to make a real impact on my community. I worked with my colleagues to create additional classes on entrepreneurship, to incorporate consumer fraud and identity theft prevention into existing personal finance classes, and host events I otherwise would’ve never dreamed of teaching. This was well outside my comfort zone, and I loved it. I learned so much about adult education, presentation skills and workshop facilitation that I carry with me every day through my current role.
The time came to leave the support center. We were moving back to the East Coast for my husband’s next duty station in South Carolina. I took about six weeks off to work on some light renovations to our new home and to get settled in, but I started getting that itchy feeling that I needed to get back to work.
I started looking online and after a few days of hunting, a job posting nearly jumped off the screen at me: fraud investigations supervisor for a regional bank. This was it. What a great position. I would love to do something like that! I hadn’t yet managed a team, though I had a feeling I’d enjoy it. I took a deep breath and applied.
Fraud investigations management checks all the ikigai boxes for me: mission, passion, vocation and profession. Or, what the world needs, what you love doing, what you are good at and what you can be paid for. The world needs dedicated anti-fraud professionals fighting the good fight. I love being a victim advocate and helping those who otherwise can’t use the system to fight these battles. I found that in the legal field, and I’ve continued to find that in fraud investigations and fraud prevention.
I keep current on fraud trends, and I have a knack for spotting red flags. As a member of the ACFE, I’m able to attend conferences to meet and learn from others from around the world. While volunteering to do this is incredibly rewarding, the fact that we get paid to do it is icing on the cake.
Today, I lead a team of diverse and dedicated fraud investigators. Our cases are fascinating and complex. We help customers who are victims of all types of financial crimes: check fraud, wire fraud scams, business email compromises, identity theft and the current spate of unemployment benefit and SBA loan fraud. I find ikigai with each new challenge we face.
I don’t know what the rest of my journey will include, but I’m approaching it with personal and community-focused fulfillment in mind.
Remembering back to the first conversation I had with a fraud investigator at the bank in Hawaii, I find I enjoy this reflection on my path. We never know what impact we have on those around us, so I encourage you to talk to others about what we do and why we do it. Find your ikigai and share it widely.
Tracy G. Swaim, CFE, is enterprise fraud manager at Heartland Financial USA Inc. Contact her at tracygswaim@gmail.com.
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